We can argue all day about the rights and wrongs of what Lewis did but for the record, I’m with the majority in thinking he’s been shafted - again. How can he have gained unfair momentum when he clearly lifted, let Kimi past and tucked in behind him before re-passing at the next corner?
The law of physics says that for Kimi to have passed he must have had more momentum at that point, end of story. Except that there is more than one voice in the TG office that reckons he should have backed off even more.
Obviously they are wrong - Lewis was miles faster than Kimi at that point and would have been up his chuff into La Source anyway. And if you want to talk about gaining unfair momentum by going off the track, did anyone else clock just how much grip, and therefore speed, Kimi picked up on the following lap when he himself ran off the circuit and took to the run off area? That mistake allowed him to close right back onto Lewis’ tail and that to me very clearly was an advantage.
I guess we can, and probably will, argue about this for months to come. The fact of the matter is that it made no difference to the race result - Kimi was busy screwing up all on his own on those last few laps anyway - and for the lacklustre Massa and Heidfeld to go down in the history books as finishing in P1 and P2 is just plain wrong.
But all of this is symbolic of a much more important issue that faces F1. My six year old lad is at the same age now as I was when I first became obsessed with F1 and the sport needs him and his like.
Having endured a monumentally dull race at Valencia he actually became quite animated during the closing stages of Spa but this morning he went to school bloody furious at the steward’s decision.
I don’t think he’ll bother watching Monza. You see, regardless of whether the masses are right about that duff decision, the general consensus is that F1 isn’t ruled fairly. Folk believe that there is one rule for Ferrari, one rule for the others and another rule altogether for McLaren.
And for as long as that’s the case they have a problem. I’m not sure I can be bothered investing two hours every other Sunday watching a sport that is largely processional if I can’t be certain that at least the result will be a fair one.
Most of the people like formula1 because of ferrari. why cant it be another manufacturer! at least for once! its awkward
Absolutley spot on, I got a text last night from my brother, that conatained a lot of words with stars rather than letters.
Quite simply, so far this season, Ferrari have risked the fan’s health by driving around with a large chunk of metal flapping around; no black and orange flag, and risked their competitor’s health by letting a car go into the path of another IN THE PITS; got a a slap on the wrist and 20 pence fine.
Also on that occasion, I believe the general idea was that the Fezza’s got a fine so as “not to ruin the spectacle” so why this time?
Personallly I think the spectacle is becoming tescicles…..
Look what Niki Lauda, (WHO USED TO BE FOR FERRARI) said to stewards and the FIA!
Austrian Lauda said: “This is the worst judgment in the history of F1. The most perverted judgment I have ever seen. It’s absolutely unacceptable when three functionaries (the stewards) influence the championship like this.”
All of them - the organizers, th regulators, the teams and the drivers - have had more money than sense for more time than makes sense and they have turned F1 from something I used to be glued to, into something I now fall asleep to. I agree with the original post: it’s no longer an event I’m prepared to give two hours of my Sundays to either. I don’t plan to watch any more grands prix and I’m deleting all my F1 links from my browser.
First, I’ll agree that the penalty Hamilton got was a weird. But, I think it is extremely unfair to paint this as a proof that FIA is “against” Lewis Hamilton. Those who have a bit of memory will remember all the situations Halmilton got away with (or Alonso was punished) last season (lifted from sandtrap, Hungary, Fuji controversy, weaving at the start etc.) I’d say that yes, FIA is incompetent in its’ ruling, but at least the imcompetence is delivered relatively fairly across the field.
I didn’t watch the Grand Prix, the whole “sport” bores the life out of me to be honest, but after all the flapdoodle and hoo haa in the media I’ve watched a few clips of the incident on youtube, and I think the judgement of the stewards was fair. Had he not cut the corner, Hamilton would have been directly astern of the Ferrari and not alongside as he was. He clearly gained an advantage and should have slowed a lot more instead of nailing the throttle with the Raikkonen no more than a nose in front.
The penalty for Hamilton is appalling. As stated above, what advantage did he truly gain?
Do all these stewards have a nice -free- Ferrari in their garages? They let Ferrari get away with anything, even when it’s hazardous. Fancy a piece of exhaust pipe through your visor anybody?
F1 has gone down the drain. The governing body is claerly biased. Is corrupt too strong a word?
I’m not watching Monza next week.
USELESS FIA ARE DUMB AND ITS A GOOD THING THAT THE FIA DON’T RUN TOPGEAR BECAUSE IF THAT HAPPENED THEN A LAP OF TOPGEARS TEST TRACK IN A FERRARI WOULD BE 5(FERRARI SHOUTS OF THE LINE) 4, 3, 2, 1(FERRARI ALREADY AT FIRST CORNER), GO! SECOND CORNER TOWARD THE TIRE WALL TURN LEFT (DON’T BOTHER WITH THE HAMMERHEAD AND THAT PART OF THE TRACK IN A FERRARI) AT THE SECOND TO LAST CORNER AND STOP THE CLOCK DON’T BOTHER WITH THE LAST CORNER AND THEN TAKE 5 SECONDS OF THE TIME. THATS WHAT THEY’RE DOING WITH F1 AND LEWIS STILL WINS SO THEY SEARCH THE REPLAY’S FOR SOME EXCUSE TO HAND THE LEAD TO A FERRARI
C’mon Brits, you’re always complaining about something… Moss, Mansell, Hill, Button, Hamilton…they were all robbed, and miles better then anybody else… wrong again.
Hamilton made an over-optimistic overtake move anyway.
Bus Stop pass from the outside line? Maybe Batman could pull it off, but Lewis? Definitely not!
It was Kimi’s race anyway. Brits can’t always win, you know…
BTW, Massa sucks…BIG TIME!
Im sorry now but can we all just take a step back from this lewis hamilton bias and look at things from a nuetral point of view. If hamilton was going to back oof, why didnt he back off going into the chicane instead on the straight, ill tell you why, because if he had he would have not got the run into the first bend to make the manouvere he did. Hence staying behinf him, are ye all so blinded by englands need for a champion at some world class sport that ye are willing to overlook facts now. Shafted, ha, dont make me laugh. IDIOTS
Finally for the first time i was on the edge of my seat watching the F1, and now FIA’s incompetent steward managed to ruin it. It reaaly makes me think who is machining the F1, who are the powers behind it… clearly not the engineers and drivers.
One thing is clear though, the A1 GP will gain ever so more fans by these circus acts.
I sure hope, but probably in vain, that the appeal by the mc laren team has any result and that the FIA once wil be cleared of the pocket filling fat arses that reside it it now.
Im going to watch the GP next week. i want to see lewis win by 4 laps having never come closer to a competitor than 4 car lengths, yet still be stripped of his 1st because of technical issues with his underpant buttons. then when my blood boils i can heat the house and save on my gas bill. I never realised F1 was that green.
If you reverse the cars, and it was kimi who “had gained an advantage”, nothing would have happened, and if it was then Hamilton who picked up more speed and grip on run off area to close the gap, alot, im willing to bet a small fortune that hamilton would have had a penalty imposed on him that meant he couldnt use a car in monza, the FIA are on thier arse, and ruining F1. How can you tell someone to watch and hour and half of great racing, to turn around and go, opps sorry guys we love ferrari. Makes me furious. I just hope Hamilton can win against the wishes of the FIA to prove how good he really is.
That’s why I don’t bother watching F1 any more. The championship is being decided by a few suits in the ivory F1 tower. It stinks!!!!!
Adam may I suggest you tell your son to start watching Moto GP!! Get a tape of this years laguna seca round & watch a genius at work.He’ll soon be converted and won’t have to worry about races being ruined by politics.
Yoshi (46)
Yoshi
I’d suggest for Monza that hamilton radio the pit, the FIA & Ferrari (same thing now aren’t they?) to ask permission to over take should he come up behind a Ferrari. And just to be absolutely sure it’s safe to pass he should also wait a bit - like maybe until the end of the season!!
Used to be a Ferrari supporter - one pair of Ferrari trainers(hardly worn due to shame) going on Ebay shortly!
I love Ferrari, however this is a perfect example about how the FIA is interfering with matters on the track, and as always they have got it wrong. This interference is killing the sport. I really hope Massa wins the title, but not like this. Hamilton was robbed blind of a genuine victory which he deserved! I think F1 misses the like of Schumacher who was able to put in blindingly quick lap times and pass cars on the track, but Hamilton’s move on Kim was fine! Let’s decide the championship on the track!
Lewis Will Win Monza next week, Massa isnt good enough, he’ll bottle it.
A petition is in place, http://www.petitiononline .com/belgp08/petition.htm l as of now 10,674 and rising by a few hundred a hour
As you can see from my name I’m a Ferrari follower and usually accept the decisions made by stewards towards Ferrari as you’d expect, but this is a completly obscure call from the stewards and Hamilton should be handed back the win.
As soon as the black clouds came over I knew Kimi would have some trouble, but to give a 25 second penalty to Hamilton after Kimi forcing him from the track is ridiculous. Surely even the Ferrari team can see this is a bad decision.
I agree with Lauda “This is the worst judgment in the history of F1.”
come on brits and Hamiltonites, we have to watch Monza to support our man! If he cant do it, no-one can! (not Button at least)
wow you people need to understand that whether lewis WOULD have or COULD have passed kimi, at that point he passed him ONLY because he went off track.
And he didn t let him get even a whole car ahead before accelerating again. Which is not of much importance since he would have passed anyway, but it just underlines how immature lewis still is.
Let alone how he messed up in the press conference, claiming that he was in front before the corner and Kimi cut him off and forced him off track. In which case, why did he let Kimi pass him again anyway??
Lewis is gonna win the championship this year and some discipline will do more good to him than the points of this victory(although i STRONGLY disagree with changing a race’s outcome after it’s finished)
The worst judgement in the history of F1? well, seems like Lauda forgot Senna and Prost in Suzuka in 1990… and the fact that McLaren wasn t expelled from the championship last year or for the years to come
I will never buy another Ferrari product in my life… Not sneakers, not jackets and not stationary. Should some good fortune financialy befall me, I will buy Porsche.
After their shamefully ‘running to the stewards and crying like little girls’, I want no association with the brand.
By the wat, I’m not British.
EX FERRARI FAN!!!
Hmmm…
The rce was not bad at all but Kimi was on the first place during nearly the whole GP…
What was interresting wasn’t at “the front” but just behind…
Bourdais deserved the 3rd place. He did such an amazing job with the car he had…
Heidfeld’s gamble paid cash and that was great to see him in front of Robert…
The last 3 laps were “messy”… As Bourdais said on the Belgian TV saturday : “If it rains, the positions will be only given by “luck”" and he was right !
About Lewis… Well, we will argue a lot… Bas Leinders (ex Minardi diver) thought that Lewis’s overtaking wasn’t really fair… He said that Lewis knew that the chican was coming so last push the breaks just a bit to late allowing him to “cut” the corner…
Now, is it true or false ? fair or not ? We will argue for ages…
What I think is that : the race happens on a track…
On that corner it wasn’t grass or gravel… but it wasn’t really “on the track”…
If it had been gravel or grass as it schould be, Lewis’s race was over…
I don’t expect you to understand, Lewis’s Brit, so is McLaren, that’s normal for you to say it was unfair to give him the 3rd place instead of the 1st…
I am not saying that you are bad losers, but it’s borring to ear every 2 weeks that the FIA is against Lewis and McLaren…
“Poor Lewis, he didn’t know McLaren had Ferrari’s secret files”
“Poor Lewis, it isn’t fair… bla bla bla”
Borring borring borring …
If you don’t like it, don’t watch it. Lewis maintained or gained an advantage, his competitive edge (and lack of willingness to back off properly) clouded his inexperienced judgement. He should of given up and resumed behind Kimi. The rules are clear and they were clearly broken. Punishment given to Lewis matches those given to other rule breakers.
Lucky we have such good Stewards in this sport who cut through the shameful British attitude and delivered an appropriate verdict and punishment.
I agree, the Brits do tend to complain when things don’t go their way. Look at the McLaren Ferrari spying scandal? McLaren should not have even been allowed to race this season as it is the worst offence and so on.
However this is an open and shut case. I don’t like Hamilton’s Mr. nice guy approach but he is a great racer! This was a mistake and will damage F1 again!
By the way, Ferrari did not go running to the FIA F1 fan, get your facts right.
I totally agree with Pierre-Yves. I understand that Brits are defending their “hero”, but how can anybody say that his cutting of the corner wasn’t an advantatge? He is too impatient and lacking of experience..
(I’m sorry for my English)
As a Neutral party to this (as i’m German, and a Vettel and BMW supporter) I’m still outraged by the decisions the stewards made.
To Pierre-Yves I say this. Yes Raikkonen was in front for most of the race. But the stats clearly showed that when it mattered Hamilton was faster. and after all Raikkonen crashed into the barriers anyway. I think the FIA forgot that Raikkonen passed Hamilton again after a few corners after the original incident in question. and then completely messed his own race up. Hamilton would have finished first no matter whether that last corner incident would have occured. So why does the politics of F1 have to ruin a perfectly fair result AGAIN!?
It’s a fair penalty. The equivalent of a stop and go and as they have to be served within 5 laps (I think) then Hamilton could have easily taken the penalty the last time around the track handing himself the win (as he would cross the start line before reaching his pitbox). Therefore it wouldn’t have actually been a penalty to him. Oh and incase anyone says different, Schumacher has done this before and recieved no punishment, case rested.
Simon. you have to remember that in a very similar incident a few years ago when Schumacher was racing DeLaRosa (who was in a mclaren) Schumacher didn’t get a penalty for his corner cutting antics.
and he was in a Ferrari. coincedence?
Hadidi. How did he gain advantage of being 6mph slower across the finish line and letting Raikkonen back through to take the lead? very ignorant of you.
i agree. Hami did nothing wrong. He raced his heart out and gave Kimi every chance to stay in front. I have been a fan of Ferrari for a long time and now see the bias. Hami won that race and did it like he always does. He drives like he knows something that all the other F1 drivers don’t, like there is a magic force pushing him around the track. He is fluid!
Shame on the FIA for being turds. Hami was 6K slower when they crossed the line, and Hami still short braked him in a wet corner and made it stick.
Plod, he did resume behind Kimi!
That is the rule.
It does not say wait 10 seconds, wait until after the next corner or give up.
I think the 9 other teams should break off from Formula 1 and just let Ferrari circle around on their own. That’s apparently what they want to see anyway.
FIA = Ferraris’ International Associates.
Lewis HAS been shafted… AGAIN.
Bernie Ecclescake needs to pull his head out of his wallet and do something before F1 becomes a complete joke.
Another typical example of the Ferrari mafia pulling the strings begind the scenes. And they claim they didn’t complain to the FIA bringing about the investigation. LIES, LIES I TELL YOU! If Kimi Raikonnen had done what Lewis Hamilton was forced to do by Kimi, he would have got his wrists slapped and a fine. Hamilton gets a time penalty and a race result stripped. It’s not just biased towards Ferrari, I think it’s racism. This decision by the FIA (F**** In A***) is an insult to the fans, the sport, and everything it stands for!
Hi, i’m from Italy, and i’m a fan of Ferrari.Yesterdy i saw a great battle between two great drivers.For me Lewis made a great move, that’s it.Everybody are looking for some action in F1 races, yesterday i’ve seen that.FIA is full of idiots.Like i said, i’m a Ferrai supporter, well, i’m sorry for what happened.
It seems like the FIA is on a hunt for Mclaren! whatever they do they get penalized!!! and yesterday was no different, one of the Mclaren’s overtook a Ferrari, so in the eyes of the fia that was a crime against humanity and they should be punished!!!! And please tell me something ,what good is it to race if the championship is already decided? I mean ferrari has done a mistake almost 2 times this season
first is in “Monaco” Kimi hitting one of the force India cars and the other incident was in the pit lane , Did they get penalized? or demoted?or maybe fined for abt 100 million US$??….. nah i don’t think so…..
So i ask one simple question ?
Does the F.I.A stand for Fédération Internationale de l’Automobile or Ferrari International Association?.
I am disgusted by this… And by no means am I a Hamilton fan… I want Massa to win but I cant believe that they forced Lewis dont to 3rd, its a disgrace to F1… It was clearly one of the best races ive ever seen in F1 and FIA had to go and ruin it, its as if they dont want people to watch and hate this sport.
I feel sorry for Lewis and wish the FIA wasnt run by such idiots, i think it should be the public to vote… or just let things be, its a war out there and were loving it and FIA comes to ruin it…
damn you FIA:…
Hamilton got an advantage by cuting the chicane so was much closer to Kimi, so got a tow.
Unfair advantage, hence he get’s penalised.
It doesnt matter anyway, he’s still winning the championship..massa’s car will inevitably blow up again, Kimi is not going to be able to repeat last year if Hamilton just stays on the road and drives carefully.
Hamilton has the title in the bag, like he had last year (but it was him who screwed up, a true brit!).
I just wanted to say that outside UK people are not so sympathetic to your beloved Lewis. My opinion is that he should have been punished for what he did. I was very surprised when he got the penalty for real, because several times he got away (especially in 2007) when he clearly should have been penalised. It may make you people happy, but Lewis shouldn’t get away everytime just because he’s british in the british run formula one world.
Massa winning this one is plain wrong on the other side.
Anybody else think that Ron Dennis is the dullest man alive?
Also, Hamilton is such a corporate ninny:
“To pull on another Vodafone McLaren Mercedes rocket red victory T-shirt feels awesome.”
I DONT DELIEVE IT!
The only explaination has to be that F I A stands for “Ferrari Incentivised Ars**oles” This just has to be Mafia based as logic does not prevail. Some of the best closing moments in a race for what a decade??? and the Mafia, sorry the FIA, deicide to punish one of the most exciting drivers the Sport has seen in a generation. If the FIA can not rule without being so outrageously biased / racist (probably both) then the sport deserves to die and talent move to other motor sport.
That was the most exciting race i have seen from f1 they surely Hamilton was trying to avoid a crash…
Just to say to non-British people on this thread:alot of us ‘Brits’ are NOT biased towards Hamilton,in fact,alot of us find all the Hamilton-hype and British media obsession with him really tedious and irritating.Sure,he’s a great driver(but not the best imho)but personally,i’m not a big fan-I don’t like his arrogant attitude-i hope he grows up soon.A little humility wouldn’t go amiss,Lewis.I rate Bourdais,Vettel and Kubica above him…and maybe a few more.
Again all that same thing about FIA and making Hamilton a hero.
OMG. My only point about this is, he could win the race without doing that, that’s why he has been penalized. He was faster he could way to do it in the right place.
As I fair driver he should know that he should stop his car if needed but not take advantage in the corner. That’s why I think he still a kid wanting to win a race at any cost, which for me is not enough to be driving a F1 car.
L Hamilton is fair away to be a proper race driver, he can go fast, he can be dangerous and very unfair sometimes. So please stop complaining about FIA, Ferrari and anything else.
ripsnorter maybe you’re not but how do you rate the article on top of this page. I find it pretty biased.
Lewis has made lyberal use of the rules before too.
Like the start-stop during safety car last year making fetel crash into webber or the same corner cutting he did on monza. I’m pretty sure he could have backed off Rikonen and then pass him later but he preffered to stay alongside him and keep the on the inside for the next corner he was right on the aeorodinamic advantage directly behind the ferrari when he made his move.
i agree with what your are saying and for me the FIA is killing F-1 because the are not loving racing but dollars the letter F is the first letter of FIA & Ferrari look how they treated the pitstop of Massa in Valencia and how they did it with GP 2 in Belguim rules are changed as long your name is Ferrari
immediately at the end of the race, i had thought lewis had won it. but when i first heard of the stewards decision, i too was puzzled.. to begin with.
the explanation is best understood when analyzed scene by scene while closely watching and rewatching those moments under scrutiny by the stewards.
1.
-when kimi and lewis were battling into the final chicane before the home straight, they were side by side going into turn 18.
-kimi is on the inside line and lewis is on the outside line.
-while kimi stays on the racing line, lewis tries to go around the outside of kimi.
-notice that kimi did not actually “push” lewis off the road. lewis simply ran out of it as he does not slow down enough to be able to safely make the final turn 19.
2.
-following this, lewis has no option but to cut the corner to avoid colliding with kimi, which is fair play.
-yes, lewis does slow up to allow kimi to repass him.
-BUT- and this is where the stewards are pinning lewis with the penalty:
-lewis only allows kimi to momentairly pass him before he begins to accelerate again.
-so what’s the problem? -lewis is directly behind kimi’s gearbox.
-and what is wrong about that?
-the advantage gained by lewis from cutting the corner is that he was able to be right behind kimi’s gearbox going into the first corner
-whereas if he had completed turn 19 instead of cutting across it, he would have been much further behind kimi during the acceleration phase out of the last corner (as affectionately termed by martin brundle as the “concertina” or simply “yo-yo” effect).
-THUS- the penalty of a drive through was handed to lewis.
-it can be said that lewis did not let kimi repass in the intention of letting him regain the position.
-rather lewis took advantage of the situation by minimizing the time he had to let kimi to repass and then immediately going on to attack the position.
-a situation that attracts the same penalty is by passing under yellow flags.
-if a faster ‘car A’ overtakes a slower ‘car B’ through a corner under waved yellows then momentarily allows ‘car B’ to repass on the following straight for a fraction of a second before accelerating into the open space ahead to retake the position then ‘car A’ would be investigated and handed a drive through penalty.
-it can be argued on technicality that ‘car A’ allowed ‘car B’ to repass but intentionally it would not have been the case as ‘car A’ took advantage of a situation that he would otherwise not have had.
-so in actuality the view of the stewards is that lewis overtook kimi by taking advantage of a situation that he wouldn’t have had if he’d correctly piloted through the final corner.
-also the penalty is not for lewis cutting the corner, rather it is for not returning the equivalent gap that kimi would have had going down the straight (1-2 car lengths based on the head start kimi would have had to begin accelerating out of the final corner before lewis).
-so in conclusion, the penalty although cruel had reasoning and had lewis given kimi an acceptable “normal” gap after the repass he would have most certainly not received the equivalent of a drive through penalty implemented after the race.
P.S. the advantage of momentum gained by kimi in the run-off area was around the OUTSIDE of the track and is not deemed to be cutting the corner by any means, which is altogether irrelevant as the penalty was not for hamilton cutting the corner and gaining “momentum” advantage.
lewis hamilton gained a positional advantage that allowed him to make the overtake a lot easier than it otherwise would have been.
I want to see more racing like the last few laps of Spa, but it seems the FIA are not of the same opinion. Perhaps they should watch a bit of BTCC, NASCAR, WTCC, V8 Supercars(Australia) to see what constitutes “unfair advantage”.
Hamilton tried to go the long way around Kimi. Every single driver including Lewis would have done the same thing that Kimi did in that situation and close the door. That was never going to work as a passing maneuver, especially fighting for the win on the second last lap. Lewis should have slammed on the brakes and taken the corner instead of fighting Kimi stupidly for the corner. He knew that if he did he would lose about 2 or 3 seconds putting him about 3 or 4 seconds behind on the straight, so instead he cut the corner knowing he would be about 10cm behind Kimi getting the perfect tow. 10cm and ultimately an EASY pass versus being 3 or 4 seconds behind with little chance to win if he yielded and continued around a track is a massive advantage.
To all of you people crying about this, Lewis KNEW Kimi would block him and he COULD have yielded and gone around the corner. But regardless, there is NO WAY POSSIBLE he could have come out of that failed pass and around the corner and be that close to the back of the Ferrari.
About the advantage Kimi got running outside of the track. I clearly remmember that lewis got outside of the track on the same place too just not as wide.
And I don’t think that you can get an advantate on that corner by running wide it’s true that you can reach a higher speed but it’s also true that you have more ground to cover and two curbs to pass trough. I’ve seen a lot of races and a lot of people running out in that particular corner on Spa and all of them lost time compared to the people that stayed on the track.
So why dont they make going offtrack less inviting? I mean, they could make a surface like heavy duty sandpaper. Something grating anyway. Then the tyres would instantly wear out if you went off. No chance of any advantage, no need for these controversial decisions. Simple and elegant: if you ever go off, you need to change tyres.
That’s because Ferrari is the best !
Nikkel,I think there are valid points for both sides of the argument regarding the lastest incident and it will run and run but I also think the above article is bordering on whining:’poor’Mclaren aren’t the victims everyone’s making out to be,yes,maybe the FIA are a little Ferrari-biased this time but Ron Dennis is no angel and has got away with alot over the years.But one thing is for sure,Lewis has always displayed with his driving that he does not know when to back off(even if it means crashing)and this attitude is what started the whole incident at Belgium-imho I think he should have just breaked behind Kimi but the point is,he knew he’d end up in a position where he’d have to cut the chicane,so it was effectively a planned move.That is the point.I’m not saying he deserved such a harsh penalty,i’m just saying he needs to know that he can’t just act like a spoilt brat and has to get his own way.
at z3d:
exactly my point, but much condensed =)
at Tak:
the surfaces around the outside of the pouhon corner (fast sweeping turns 10 and 11) are the same tarmac as the race track itself for the same reasons why gravel traps are being replaced by high grip run off areas, they are for safety reasons. besides those areas are always going to be more dirty that the race track with debris all over the place but stil have significantly more grip for the dirver to have more control in the event of an off track moment rather than bouncing across a gravel trap that doesn’t efficiently reduce the momentum of an f1 car at full speed.
Sorry wrong end !
all i see here in these forum is a bunch crybabies and sore lossers
OK, enough of everybody’s whining about how the Brits are whiners and are just bitching about Hamilton’s getting the shaft from the FIA. I’ve had enough of it. You are whining about how they are whining. Get over it. That being said, I’m from the Midwestern United States and I couldn’t care less about where a driver hails from. I spend two hours watching the race and its coverage every other week. Yesterday morning, I woke up at 6:30 in the morning on my day off to watch this race. The rest of my family woke up at around 7:30 in the morning to my excited whoops and hollers. The last 3 laps of that race at Spa were probably the most entertaining motor sport that I have watched in years. If every F1 race were that interesting, F1 races would be more popular than any other sport on earth. Watching multi-million dollar cars whir around the track, spinning out, passing each other at a frenzied pace, not having any idea who was gonna win, that was an absolutely amazing spectacle. Hamilton was barely holding his car to the road at the end of the race. At least on Speed’s coverage, the announcers were ludicrously excited even after Kimi crashed and Hamilton was trying to conquer Eau Rouge. It was exciting even at the front where there was no battle!!! While Kimi had a brilliant drive all day, and I must say, on those soft compound tires, he was just ridiculously good, Hamilton’s last 3 laps were even better. Had Kimi not crashed, I’m fairly sure that Hamilton would win. In my opinion, he has better car control in general. However, when I logged on to TopGear this morning and saw that the FIA had after the fact removed the stunning victory from Hamilton, I was fairly appalled. While, after thinking the incident over, I can see the basis for which the decision was reached, it seems to me that this race was decided by men who were off the track and were not on the track. Hamilton tried to avoid contact, Kimi rubbed him off, he went across the median, and tucked back behind Kimi. I agree that he should have left a car length or 2 between him and Kimi, but even then, to punish him 2 spots for approximately .2 seconds that he should have slowed is unfair to F1 as a whole. It isn’t even relevant because Kimi crashed out anyways. The stewards made a very poor decision, even if, which I’m not sure they did, they made the right call. This decision impacts the points totals drastically, in both the driver’s and constructors totals. Hamilton, instead of being ahead of Massa by 8 points, is now only ahead by 2. McLaren Mercedes, instead of trailing by single digits to Ferrari, now trails by 12. This decision by the men behind a desk changes an entire season and it makes race fans everywhere wary. If the next race weren’t at Monza next week, I would probably skip watching it. But I have to respect that epic racetrack. I’ll be watching it, but only grudgingly.
There was nothing more Hamilton could’ve done. And now he’s been penalised for being a quick thinker, and re-taking Raikkonen at the next possible opportunity. If the boot was on the other foot, and it was Raikkonen who’d done ‘that manoeuvre’, I’m 99.9% sure a penalty wouldn’t have even been considered.
The events in the last two Grand Prix have convinced me that the FIA have three rule books. One marked ‘Ferrari’, which consists of no text at all, maybe a few squiggles saying “we love Ferrari”. One marked ‘McLaren’. Which stipulates ‘anytime a McLaren is on track we must find a way to punish them’. And then there’s the rule book for the rest of the teams. Which, probably, contains a line somewhere that says ‘leave them alone, unless they interfere with Ferrari’.
Formula 1 has been lacking, in the entertainment department, of late. But, as soon as something exciting does happen a driver will be punished by one of these dullard stewards for ‘committing an offence that breaks rule 311.5.4b’. It makes me sick.
The FIA are ruining F1, with their silly little procedures, their complete transparent bias towards Ferrari, and their three rule books. It’s just a shame that the ‘breakaway’ Formula never came to anything.
the kid just doesnt belive the rules apply on him and he proved it time and again
How about a boycot of Monza?
At least if some of us don’t watch it, the FIA will realise they can’t do as they please when they see the lower ratings?
I’ve signed the petition also.
Please do the same
http://www.petitiononline .com/belgp08/petition.htm l
http://www.PetitionOnline .com/belgp08/petition.htm l
Hey guys, is there anything we can do to let the FIA suffer? Can someone hack their website or something and post the real facts and expose them for the Ferrari lap dogs that they really are? I’m not dissing this forum, but this doesn’t help us educate the FIA that they are ruining the sport!
Seems to me as if, and this is not supposed to affend anyone and just a suggestion, that the FIA are maybe a bit racist and they class Formula one as upper-class? its like they dont want a non-white person to win the race because it will no longer be seen as an upper-class sport the wealthy. this is just a suggestion and im not trying to offend anyone. anyone else share this opinion?
Most of the people here are biased towards hamilton, even the OP. The FIA does not have a different set of rules for every team. How many times has Kovaleinen been penalized? The problem is, Hamilton only has about a year and a half of experience in an F1 car so he’s bound to make mistakes. The thing is, since he’s a good driver, people make a big hoopla when he makes a mistake and is punished for it. Nobody would care if Sutil was given a 25 second penalty. Nobody cared when Kovaleinen bumped webber in this race. But when Hamilton crashed into the back of Raikkonnens car during the Canadian and was given a 10 place penalty, people were furious. When Hamilton cut the corner (instead of breaking like you’re supposed to when your being blocked) and gained the advantage…I think what happened was that when hamilton blocked of by slowing down to the left, he blocked raikkonnen from turning in left to make a smoother turn into the next corner ( you can see him wiggling a bit) and raikkonnen lost alot of speed so hamilton just shot past him to the right. But anyway, if I ran the FIA, going through one of the safety run off areas would mean a drive through penalty. Regardless of whether or not it was intentional, there should be any sort of penalty for running-off because otherwise aggressive drivers like hamilton would just keep pushing and pushing knowing that even if he runs off, he would barely lose any time because the run off areas are exactly the same as normal track areas.
trouble is, we can moan all we like but it’s McLaren that need to sort it out. The whole sport is fixed.As soon as Ferrari lose they moan like heck and the stewards pay sympathy. When anyone else does they don’t listen. Someone’s got to go, preferably Ferrari’s funding.
Ripsnorter You say and I quote “But one thing is for sure,Lewis has always displayed with his driving that he does not know when to back off(even if it means crashing)”
So basically that puts lewis on a par with The sports greats, Schumacher and Senna both displayed this trait, and this is what Lewis aspires too. Good on him for being agressive and having a go, I think its something the British have been lacking in, in the sporting arena for too long.
The fact of the matter is that if this incident deserves a time penalty equivalent to a stop go, then so did the Ferrari Pit lane incident in valencia. I really can’t believe that anyone with any sporting integrity at Ferrari will hail this a great decision, Schumacher, Kimi and Massa included. Also I truely believe that if Massa goes on to win this Championship by a margin of anything less than 10 points he will have a nagging feeling that it was not of his own making.
I know people believe that Hamilton is arrogant, they complained that he did not appologies after Canada (he states in a post race interview that he had just come back from personally appologising to Kimi). His biggest issue is that he is ruffling too many feathers by coming into the sport and getting right to the top too quickly Schumacher took 4 year to win a championship and Lewis nearly did it in one. I don’t suppose this will ever change, but I fear the only way Hamilton can show his true skill will be through events such as the ROC and the TOP GEAR F1 drivers Lap board.
For the past three or four years, I haven’t bothered with the F1 because it just turned into 22 cars going round and round in circles for a few hours. I’d only really bother with the highlights, because you’d see all the crashes and interesting bits.
This year however, the whole Hamilton battle has sparked my interest once again, and the amount of times I haven’t been fond of the FIA is soon to become double figures, if not already.
Make it better FIA, or I’m going back to rallying…wait, they do that too.
Alonso was penalised for the same thing at Suzuka 2005, he passed Klien but overshot the chicane, let Klien passed but got back in the slipstream right away and passed him into turn one.
Clearly that was an advantage, just as it was this time.
Hamilton is getting penalised for the simple reason that he is using his heart rather than his head a lot of the time. You have to respect the rules or you will be punished. Simple. Stick to them and you can’t possibly be penalised.
i think this desision was fair, mclaren has been risking there drivers and team plus fans four 2yrs now. SORY BUT IT IS TRUE. and then mcleran is unfair on everyother driver tht has been there longer thn lewis he got the jump staight into a fast car sorry VERY VERY UNFAIR. the desision was RIGHT
Ferrari = italian
Mafia = italian
nuff said ,
Not sure what hold they have over the little
evil toad that is Eccelstone, but it seems a strong one !
I watch all types of motorsport yet look forward to formula one because it is the pinnacle of motorsport, or at least it is supposed to be. After the shambles sfter the race (not during it) it makes me feel i will be much better off watching WTCC or Moto Gp and forgeting the whole controversy surrounding Formula 1. I mean its all the time there is some sort of commotion and frankly its boring me to death.
Mr. P
Don’t forget that Schumacher started in Jordan, Masa in Sauber and Alonso in Minardi. Lewis started in one of the best teams on the grid. What about Mika Salo he won his first race with a Ferrari when Shumacher was injured despite not racing during 1999 season and not having any succes before this goes to show that the car is very important.
As a poll, who here thinks that the McLaren appeal will be overturned?
At least Raikkonen is a proper racing driver. Gets paid more than any other and the night before the race he gets Tontoed on Polish vodka. And have you seen his wife? Good Lord!
for god-sake lewis won and thats it
I have read all these posts with interest, but I think most people are missing the point. I am not a McLaren fan, Hamilton fan, or a Ferrari fan but an F1 fan so I think I am unbiased. For a driver to be penalised it should be because they have inconvenienced someone else’s results, either in qualifying, in the pitlane, or in the race. Was Hamilton guilty of this? No. Kimi crashed anyway without anyone else’s help and Massa was way too far back to take advantage, so who exactly lost out??
top gear rules
q
Same old same old.Ferrari can do no wrong.They got away with a bad pit stop that others were penalised for a week earlier,now this.Something smells in the halls of Formula One…
I think at Monza Mercedes-Benz should demobilize their F1 fleet, the pace car the medical car and the not inconsiderable fleet of ‘official’ vehicles I am sure Ferrari or uncle Luca will find a more suitable red car to lead the parade around
Nikkel, Lewis Started in a McLaren because he Idolised Senna, and when he was very young Contacted McLaren and has been contracted to them for years, He would not be in the car if they didn’t think he was up to it, Gary Paffet and Pedro De La Rosa are not racing for McLaren this year and both are on their book. If Hamilton had been a Mansell fan he would be battling in a Williams right now much like Rosberg and he would be doing a great job of it. Rosberg has look at his first GP fastest lap, OK he wouldn’t be leading a championship but thats not the point Hamilton nailed his Colours to the McLaren mast many years before his F1 debut, He could be driving for the team when they where hopeless with Pegeuot power. But no he is with them as a winning team, so we can only judge his performance against his team mates. well he certainly managed to hold his own against 2 times world champion Alonso. Nobody not even the most die hard Lewis fan expected that. Now he dominates his team mate, a past winner of the Race of Champions, beating the Mighty schumacher on the way. So why should he not deserve his place. The Anti Lewis sentiment is too strong. If that manover had been carried out by any other driver on Hamilton I still would not have seen any issue with it as it was honest to goodness wheel to wheel racing if it had happend in the midfield between two other drivers we’d have all hailed the excellent specticle and been appalled if the same FIA penalty was enacted. It is just macking a farce of the whole show. By the way I was a big Salo fan when he was a Lotus and later Tyrrel driver, the guy was a legend to me, I still remember the Awe I felt as I watched him drive an F1 car with a flappy paddle gearbox, with one side of his body paralysed due to being in his team mates seat!
If Kimmi had finished the race and thats a BIG if from the way he was driving at the end then the judgement would have been fair. but to take vital points away and give them to thoes that were not wronged is biased.
Whether Lewis’ pass was fair, or over optimisitc is irrelevent here - the issue is that the FIA handed out a penalty to a McLaren driver, but in the last race, they chose to ignore a breach of the rules for a Ferrari driver….
It is a question of fair and balanced application of the rules….
I for one do not have any confidence that the FIA are applying the rules fairly. And that is a bigger issue than if Kimi / Lewis / Massa gained an advvantage.
Regardless of what happened on the track & whose fault it was, one has to admit that it was one of the best races we have had in a long time. As for the outcome, I completely agree with Pierre-Yves. & there’s simply no point in arguing about it as the Brits will defend their hero to death (regardless of logic).
How can the FIA get away with being so blatantly bias in all decisions, not just F1. If there`s ever a link to France or Italy, who`s going to win? I wonder how much it cost Ferrari to have a seat so far up the FIA`s @rse. Disgusting decisions.
First off, let me present my usual biases;
I hate Ferrari, but like Kimi. I love McLaren, but dislike Lewis Hamilton. Given the conflicts, I just cheer for Robert Kubica.
In any case, I’m in total agreement that the FIA favours Ferrari; this is one of the primary reasons I hate the red cars and the many unethical situations they’ve been involved in. I do, however, believe that Lewis needed to be penalised.
The whole of England is crying foul over their golden boy being docked the win, but the fact of the matter is, he made another rookie mistake. He clearly out-braked himself and would have had to cut Kimi off badly, even if Kimi hadn’t tried to match him. Either way, he would have had to stay behind on the track or would have caused an accident. Instead, he just intentionally overcooked the corner, cut the chicane, and subsequently failed to leave enough space for Kimi.
I won’t go so far as to say Kimi deserved the win, he binned the car of his own accord and therefore got the DNF. Lewis did not deserve the win either. Just because a pass was exciting doesn’t make it fair. In my opinion, Lewis thinks he can walk on water and as a result often over-extends his abilities.
z3d said it right. Of course Hamilton got advantage of going strait on the corner and then letting Kimi pas and then coming just few cm’s behind him was just stupid of him. Also Kimi should have known that Hamilton will get a penalty and just went on and drive to the finish.
F1.O8: my point exactly (but put much more eloquently than me!).Also,i’m not a Lewis-hater,I just think it’s pointless at this stage of his career to compare him to Senna,Schumacher et al when he’s still got alot of growing-up to do,which includes realising that (unlike the afore-mentioned legends)he’s not (quite) as good as he likes to think he is.
Ferrari did not complain to the stewards you dolts. Hamilton did gain an unfair advantage plain and simple and was penalized. He is an amazing driver and will be for years to come. However, he is still learning and this is part of the process. I do agree however that instead of being penalized 25 seconds he should have been penalized 10 grid places. But even then, people would still complain that the FIA is in Ferrari’s back pocket. Maybe if Ron Dennis didn’t try to cheat every chance he gets the FIA would be more sympathetic to his drivers.
Precisely. I’ll put it in an analogy F1 fans will understand:
Lewis isn’t yet one of the greats despite the fact that he thinks so, period. Think back to the famous pass at this very track that Mika Hakkinen pulled on Schumi, going three wide around Ricardo Zonta. If Lewis were Mika, he’d have slammed right into the back of Schumacher on the prior lap when the Ferrari made the dangerous block, I’m convinced of it.
Lewis doesn’t THINK, he just acts; often irrationally. I’d say it’s due to his arrogance, but on this one point I may just be biased. The greatest drivers in history were not only daring, but strategic at the same time. Thus far, Lewis has had the balls but not the brains.
He’s not Senna yet.
the fact that this is such a contrvershal matter suggests that it was very close. so the fia shouldnt take away a victory on something too close to call otherwise the amount of little illegal or unfair things in a race will mean you will have to wait till 1 hour after the race to get “the final result” this is pathetic on behalf of the fia they just want an important decision to make thats all.
Although I am a Ferrari fan (somewhat) i find this penalty unacceptable. Hamilton may have had an advantage but not so serious as to impose a 25s penalty, perhaps a slap i