Excellent stuff Taps.. right on the money!

We lost some responses apparently.. here they are.

---
Re: Sreesanth - Go for it new
Posted by: Ashish
Date: 02 October, 2007 22:49

Dude I'm glad you posted this.. coz all this critcism over Sreesanth was @#$%& me off, but couldnt be bothered to post.

He had 2 "incidents" in this match. First was the runout attempt on Symonds and repeated appealing for it to umpire. If Symonds had just innocently stepped out of the crease thinking the ball was dead then yeah maybe Sreesanth was not in the right spirit. But he came out specifically to ungal Sreesanth, coz Sreesanth was giving it to the batsman. In that situation I think Sreesanth's perfectly entitled to do what he did, coz Symonds shouldnt have been out there in the first place, and should have just stayed in his crease. The repeated appealing was only coz the umpire was just standing clueless and smiling. If he'd said not out, wouldnt have had 3-4 appeals.

And then the Symonds wicket was so annoying. All the commentators kept saying that Sree said something to Symonds. When its pretty clear that all he did was scream and make a face, and its infact Symonds who was mouthing off.


Re: Sreesanth - Go for it new
Posted by: max
Date: 03 October, 2007 00:24


Excellent post tapss, and a much needed one. Indians need to stop being so apologetic...they need to learn from Aussies as to how to back their players at all times.

_________________


Re: Sreesanth - Go for it new
Posted by: Birbal
Date: 03 October, 2007 00:58


well said tapss...


Re: Sreesanth - Go for it new
Posted by: Meet_New_Mr_India
Date: 03 October, 2007 01:48

I will criticize him for his bowling but not for his rants or antics.... THATS THE KEY POINT...why people are upset is because his rants or antics is affecting his bowling ability...he was bowling amazingly good till he got wicket of hodge...then he went haywire and started spraying the ball everywhere....he could have easily taken one/two moer wickets in his first spell if he had let the ball swung..


Re: Sreesanth - Go for it new
Posted by: GoCool
Date: 03 October, 2007 01:48


Tapss, you sir, are a genius. Go Sreesanth! Nothing to fear and full blast. All those who say sreesanth should cool down hide behind their mothers' shadow in shame.

Re: Sreesanth - Go for it new
Posted by: kappax
Date: 03 October, 2007 02:08


MrIndia,
That is just ur unsubstantiated assumption...

Sree always mouths off and he should continue to be his natural self...

I have criticised earlier those who mouth off and since no bar was put on them EVER.. I am now converted and support mouthing off...


Re: Sreesanth - Go for it new
Posted by: goose
Date: 03 October, 2007 02:15


the big difference is the Aussies sledge with a smile on their face. Sreesanth, however, pops a vein everytime he mouths off.


Re: Sreesanth - Go for it new
Posted by: max
Date: 03 October, 2007 02:31


Quote:
goose
the big difference is the Aussies sledge with a smile on their face.

Smile? I don't think so. Just try watching Hayden, Symonds, and co sledge in the next match. Or Mcgrath in the past. These guys are dead serious...when they abuse an opponent, they actually mean it.



Re: Sreesanth - Go for it new
Posted by: flamy
Date: 03 October, 2007 02:31


a much needed post. Thank you tapss.

Why does no one say anything about brad hogg running all the way from square leg and eve-teasing the batsmen?

Sreesanth and Uthappa are taking it right back to the Aussies and it seems the Indian media can't take it.

The good thing abt sreesanth is even when he came to bat in the hopeless situation, he wasn't bogged down. He was not chirping just when he was doing well.

And for those who say, he wont bowl well if he is allowed to be aggressive, I remind you of the T20 semi-final. And also, remember how after the final, he said, he wasn't being himself and that affected his bowling.

As for yesterday, real simple. The friggin ball stopped swinging.

On a side note, how WELL is Pathan bowling? Kudos!


Re: Sreesanth - Go for it new
Posted by: SA
Date: 03 October, 2007 02:45


Any videos for this interaction lads ? I did not get to watch this game properly !!


SA



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2007:10:03:22:12:27 by Anil.

Well said Tapss

Let the Kerala Express steam on..!!!

I think I saw Madanlal on TV saying something like...

"Why does Sreesanth want to make the Aussies angry...you know that when they get angry they will come after you and they are so big and aggressive and you will be in trouble..."

Now I know why Madanlal was KING of domestic cricket...but never succeeded to his potential on the International stage...

_____

ICL Ko Support Karo Yaro...

BCCI Ko Joote Chappal Maro....

I think you guys are confusing aggression & antics. And just cause the Aussies are doing it doesn't mean you do it. The Symonds wicket was a cheap wicket. He had to take chances at that time and somebody had to take his wicket. To celebrate in his face after you get caned is simply schoolboyish.

I mean my point is: if you are good enough that's the best way to silence opposition. If you don't react to sledging but instead let the ball or bat do the talking it drives opponents batty. Trust me, Viv Richards or the West Indian team 80s barely did anything but bat/bowl/field aggressively. And this was in the late 70s/80s where the Aussies were still ugly led by the Chappell bros. They sledged even then. Did it bother the West Indians? Just take a look at the shellackings they got.

In the NBA where sledging is very common(its called talking trash), there is one player in the San Antonio Spurs who always stands out. Manu Ginobili. This guy takes charges(meaning he intentionally gets in the way of an offensive player while playing defense) very often. He NEVER opens his mouth in the field. He NEVER questions the referee, which is an epidemic in the NBA. Opponents hit him, almost decapitate him. He simply gets up and plays. It's almost as if he is playing with automatons and so he thinks there's no point in reacting. And HE DRIVES OPPONENTS CRAZY much more than the normal guys who react vehemently physically or verbally to such tactics.

ananthd... Sreesanth is agressive and he does have a lot of quirks...

Cricket needs both...and Indian cricket in particular...

However Dravid supposedly told Sreesanth, when Dravid was Captain, that "Do you want to be remembered as a Great Bowler, or a Joker who bowled well on occassion?"

Gee Thanks, Rahul...

_____

ICL Ko Support Karo Yaro...

BCCI Ko Joote Chappal Maro....

All I'm saying it is smarter to let your play do the talking. If you succeed, your opponents will stop sledging.

It may be Sreesanth's personality, but I think his actions force him to do TOO MUCH ON THE FIELD.

He always seems to be trying too hard, almost to live up to the image he projects on the field.

You are already under tremendous pressure, you don't want to compound it by making brash predictions, pump yourself up every ball, calm yourself up every ball, go knotty etc.

I'm not advocating a bowdown to the Aussies or any other team.

Just play. You are a great bowler. The rest will take care of themselves.

It is sad how few people in the Indian media back up a FIGHTER...especially if he is also a bit of a SHOW OFF...

We like our fighters quiet but if one of them starts talking we get mighty uncomfortable... WHY?

I think tapss is asking the right questions...

_____

ICL Ko Support Karo Yaro...

BCCI Ko Joote Chappal Maro....

Birbal:
I'm not questioning Sreesanth's fighting spirit. I'm an Indian cricket fan and I want to win first before I show off.

All I'm saying is that his extra curricular stuff is detracting from his bowling WHICH IS HIS PRIMARY JOB.

HE IS A LESSER BOWLER BECAUSE OF HIS SHOWMANSHIP IS MY THEORY>

He is far more talented than he is showing because he frequently seems to get upset, irritated, distracted and reacts so much.

I love unconventional guys. Sreesanth seems to have wide-ranging interests and a fun loving guy. But he should know that he isn't making use of his full talent because he loses focus so often.

Taps pointed out that he did his job...he took 3 wickets... so I think he was successful while being tempramental..

Some athletes just work that way...think John McEnroe...

Others work the way you like...think Bjorn Borg...

_____

ICL Ko Support Karo Yaro...

BCCI Ko Joote Chappal Maro....

You made my point:

Johnny Mac was the most talented player arguably to ever the step on the tennis court(with due respect to Federer).

But he was a LESSER player for his antics. He ONLY won 7 slams, a shame given his all-world talent. He may have played well when angry. But it frequently cost him matches. He's one of the few players to have defaulted from a Grand Slam.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007:10:03:18:50:49 by ananthd.

And let's not get carried away with the 3 wicket thing. He gave up 67 and the most expesnsive bowler on view.

Symonds & Hope were basically situation wickets, anybody bowling at that stage would get these.

And did you know that Roger Federer was known early in his pro-career and in the juniors as a tantrum waiting to happen?

His racket-breaks & outbursts were so common that one day his father had to give him an ultimatum: stop these or you aren't playing tennis anymore.

He wised up. You can see the result.

The day India win match , match refree will fine him(he was fined in 20/20 only agianst AUs match) , still that time Aus mgmt(soorry ICC mgmt). want some competition to raise thier players agression.

I am sure without the fire in the belly that McEnroe had..he would not have won even 7 Grand Slams...

_____

ICL Ko Support Karo Yaro...

BCCI Ko Joote Chappal Maro....

Thats silly..You cant paint everybody with one common brush..McEnroe himself has admitted that he used his anger to motivate himself..If you have followed his past matches, you would see that he lost his temper at crucial moments when he was down or in trouble and used that to motivate himself to higher levels.Someonelike Andre Nel or Shane Warne used to do that too..You saw recently how Yuvi motivated himself after being angered by Flintoff..He was abt to go after Flintoff with a raised bat and ended up thrashing poor Broad..Not saying that being angry helps..But what Im saying is that different ppl get motivated by different things.If you can control your performance, then why the heck does it matter? Sreesanth himself has admitted that his performance dipped in the finals because he was trying to be too restrained.Maybe you think that a quiet and demure Sreesanth is better than an angry and lively one..But then you dont know how his mind works and niether do I..And so, best case, let him be what he is most comfortable with.Dont judge him based on how Rahul Dravid behaves or how Gilchrist's son behaves.

As for Roger... you are making my point actually...

He quickly realized that tantrums were not working for him so he wised up...

Actually Tendulkar apparently also had a huge temper as a kid... and went around calling himself Johnny after McEnroe...but he found it didn't work for him...and he wised up...

So whatever works...that is what one should stick with...

Sreesanth is not a 14 year old who doesn't know that works for him... so he should do whatever it takes to get the BEST out of himself...

_____

ICL Ko Support Karo Yaro...

BCCI Ko Joote Chappal Maro....

see that me and Gaurang pretty much said the same thing..He just said it with fewer words..

We are agreeing lot more these days tapss...eh?

_____

ICL Ko Support Karo Yaro...

BCCI Ko Joote Chappal Maro....

birbal don't fall in love with taps - taps is same guy who liked everything aus - even their boorish behaviour - we here on board who previously had criticized that kind of behaviour -
the only reason he likes sree is because he behaves like aussie? these guys and others on our board had not liked when ganguly had made steve waugh wait during the toss - saying it was bad manners - look our media is stupid to jump on sree and really don't care about them - and talking about mckenroe if you go back and watch his great matches with borg in 1980/1981 - he never got mad when he was playing borg -

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln

Gabbar-
Lets not personalize the issue..As for your points..ur wrong abt all points..Birbal and me and Anil have had our share of arguments and pretty gruesome ones at that.But I like to think that they were constructive arguments between two different POV's and always had a healthy respect for the guys I argue against if they have good points unlike the post u just made.Its allowed to disagree without being personal enemies..But I always supported Gangs as a cappo.Im a huge fan but I did ask him to resign and concentrate on batting when his batting failed.Never recall criticizing him for making Waugh wait..As for Sreesanth..you have misquoted me..I dont support Sree bcos he behaves like an Aussie..I support him because what he does on the field is no different from what Aussies have done in the past and quite successfully at that.Why the double standards?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007:10:03:22:34:03 by tapss.

We can agree to disagree: the calmer I've seen Sreesanth the better he's bowled.

I'm not Sreesanth's parent & I don't want to police him. But you guys don't think it becomes a constant distraction for the team when one guy keeps getting pulled by the match referee(fairly or not). He's not helping perception by perpetuating this image. Be aggressive, bowl quick, have a word or two; don't preen when you've dismissed a batter after he's gotten the better of you(Symonds); it doesn't look aggressive; it looks weak.

It's funny you think McEnroe wouldn't have won 7 slams. McEnroe rarely exploded in big games. He was quiet as a mouse playing against Borg. He did beat him in 2 classic slam finals(US Open 80, Wimbledon 81) which were excellent and notable for McEnroe's lack of theatrics.

The confident, quiet assasin is always a more scary opponent
than the brash, loudmouth who doesn't back up his words.

Sreesanth incident

For those who havent seen this..See this and make their own decision..Sreesanth went to Haddin and stared at him and actually stepped away..
Also note that when Symmonds got out, it was he who went and had words with Sreesanth which fired him up..

Remember, Sreesanth even sledged Tendulkar when bowling to him at the domestic Challenger Trophy.. so who's surprised if he does it to the Aussies?

It's clear this guy gives no quarter on field, when he can even sledge an Indian legend.. a player whom he idolizes!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007:10:04:03:01:46 by Anil.

Quote:

Be aggressive, bowl quick, have a word or two; don't preen when you've dismissed a batter after he's gotten the better of you(Symonds); it doesn't look aggressive; it looks weak.

I remember Brett lee celebrating as if he had got a batter on duck but India had just crossed 700 in sydeny in 2004...

now that was real funny.. not this sree incident...

riled up aussies are easier to defeat that non-riled up ones IMO...

Thanks for the video link, tapss. Sree did nothing wrong in that incident...in fact it was Symonds who started having words with him.

Freaking hypocritical Aussies are whining like little girls as usual after the match, when they get even a small taste of their own medicine. And sadly the self-loathing Indian media is blasting their own player instead of trashing these arrogant Aussie players.

_______________________

India's Test record against Australia over last 12 years:

Played 26, Won 10, Lost 10, Drawn 6



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007:10:04:07:42:18 by max.

The Brett Lee celebration in Sydney looked hilariously weak.

I don't understand you guys. Since when has an Aussie got an advantage due to taunting? And why are you endorsing the Aussie way?

If Sreesanth had instead of doing all the@#$%&he did and bowled within himself(like he did in the T20 SF against Aus)
it would have been better for India.

Nobody's asking Sree to be like Tendulkar & Dravid. Nothing wrong in celebrating a good wicket, giving a stare down or the odd word.

But Sreesanth is attracting unwanted attention almost every game when you guys know the match-referees are eagle-eyed when it comes to Indians.

It's not fun when a guy's name keeps coming up all the time
and it will be a distraction that the team does not need.

Quote:

But Sreesanth is attracting unwanted attention almost every game when you guys know the match-referees are eagle-eyed when it comes to Indians.

This is a problem...they should be eagle eyed for all or blind as bats for all..can't be eagle eyed for Indians and Blind as bats for Aussies...

_____

ICL Ko Support Karo Yaro...

BCCI Ko Joote Chappal Maro....

This article getting LOTS of hits... among the most popular we've posted in a while....

Shows that lot of rank and file Indians...not the media "elite" or the ex-cricketers... think Sree is RIGHT ON THE MONEY...

_____

ICL Ko Support Karo Yaro...

BCCI Ko Joote Chappal Maro....

> And why are you endorsing the Aussie way?

Largely because giving them their own medicine riles them. As Gangs showed in 2000!

The Aussies are caning the Indians, Sree is particularly feeble. You guys still don't think all this media attention is an unwanted distraction?

What the hell have India gained by all this talk? Getting humiliated?

Ananth, you have a point about letting your cricket talk for you on the field rather than the mouth. I personally subscribe to that and follow it when I can. However, I have also done a sreesanth on some occasions because the situation demanded that kind of behavior as did the recipient who perhaps deserved more.

There may be more than one way to arouse oneself in a match. It depends on the situations and the opposition team. McEnroe is a classic example. In his autobiography, he says he was quiet during matches with Borg because he respected him so much. In his encounters with Borg, he motivated himself through another way that did not dim his intensity in the slightest. Contrast this 12 years later with his 'behavior' in his last Davis cup match. He was playing doubles with Pete Sampras. USA was down 2 sets to nil and there was a danger of being knocked out. During the locker room break, McEnroe, furious with himself and the opposition, screamed something like "We are going to go out there and kick some ass!" He shouted this over and over again and fired up not only himself but also Agassi, Courier and Sampras himself who was so pumped up that he was yelling and trash-talking the opponent. When have we heard of Sampras doing that?

Mac and Sampras won that match taking the next 3 sets. I am not sure if quiet aggression would have worked for them that day.

By the way, if Sreesanth is getting the supposed 'unwanted attention' it's really not his problem. Watch how the media hypocrites come crawling out of their holes, blaming sreesanth and telling him to cool down.

Rohit Brijnath of all people has written an article in BBC sport on why Sreesanth should cool down. And this from a writer I respected.

Aussies have been kicking Indian @#$%& in One dayers for decades. Playing the usual way hasn't really helped. If anything, The entire Indian team should be furious with themselves to do something about it; I say go trash-talk the convicts and at the same time, nail them to the cross with bat and ball.

Excellent post GoCool. Indian players have adopted the right attitude to deal with these arrogant Aussies. If someone abuses you, you have every right to hit back at him...and this has nothing whatsoever to do with the actual cricket IMO. The fact is Aussies are hypocritical cry babies who cannot stand getting a taste of their own medicine. As for the self-loathing tendencies of Indian media, the less said the better.

_______________________

India's Test record against Australia over last 12 years:

Played 26, Won 10, Lost 10, Drawn 6

Our guys missed a trick when talking about the sree incident...

they should repeatedly point out Indians face a bigger risk with ICC match refs and so gotta be careful...

y'day NDTV had a informal chat show in what looked like a Hotel in Kochi with Yuvi & Dhoni taking questions from lots of 20-25 guys and gals... Pranoy Roy hosted this...

both were talking about Sree can be agggresssive but not "aggressive".. asked to clarify, Dhoni said, loomk you can question me but not come up and slap me... so Sree has to know teh boundaries and play within them...

Dhoni also did say that Yuvi was the fielding captain.. does it look that way on the field????

Then you had the usual Questions bout GF's, girls etc etc...

btw, this article is getting phenomenal hits...

_____

ICL Ko Support Karo Yaro...

BCCI Ko Joote Chappal Maro....

"Sreesanth, as you are now probably aware, is the extremely talented 24-year-old Indian pace bowler who, in recent times, has committed a sporting crime that is unlikely to be forgiven on these shores.

At a time when the Federal Government has closed the border to Africans because they are not assimilating quickly enough, Sreesanth's problem is quite the reverse. He is far too much like us.

That is, he is too much like many of those who have worn the baggy green - or floppy gold - cap in recent years."

He does things that, in the words of acting Australian captain Adam Gilchrist, "I wouldn't expect from my son, Harrison, in the backyard playing cricket."


And another passage:

Which, for those who are starting to feel a bit sentimental about the retirement of Glenn McGrath and Shane Warne as the first season without those legendary performers looms, is almost enough to make you tear up. After all, aren't these just the sort of childish antics that have helped make the Australian team the intimidating force it is today?


Here is the complete article:

[www.smh.com.au]

Nice GoCool...

And as it so happens Sreesanth IS the leading Indian bowler in this series... the only one to take wickets under 30 runs per...

_____

ICL Ko Support Karo Yaro...

BCCI Ko Joote Chappal Maro....

Empty Boxes make a lot of noise. So if SreeSanth Backs it up consistent wickets - It would be great

Beautiful article, and nice to see it from an Aussie.

Unfortunately we are unlikely to see anyhing as understanding from an Indian writer. Indians will never condone fiery attitude and aggression by one of their own, although they will be impressed and overawed when an Aussie does it to us.

Little wonder that Srinath, despite being the fastest in the world at his peak, never backed up his bowling with aggression.

The world - and India - wants Sreesanth to be what Srinath was: a gentleman fast bowler.

Quote:

Indians will never condone fiery attitude and aggression by one of their own, although they will be impressed and overawed when an Aussie does it to us.

So true...

_____

ICL Ko Support Karo Yaro...

BCCI Ko Joote Chappal Maro....

Quote:

Empty Boxes make a lot of noise. So if SreeSanth Backs it up consistent wickets - It would be great

He is the leading Indian wicket taker in the series even though he has missed a few matches...

_____

ICL Ko Support Karo Yaro...

BCCI Ko Joote Chappal Maro....

Also his spell in the Twenty20 where he took 3 for 12 or some such in 4 overs spoke LOUD AND CLEAR...

_____

ICL Ko Support Karo Yaro...

BCCI Ko Joote Chappal Maro....

Quote:

Anil
Indians will never condone fiery attitude and aggression by one of their own, although they will be impressed and overawed when an Aussie does it to us.

So true!

The Only reason Aussies get away with all this is they back is up with World Class Performance. This is the key. You might have known that successful people can run away with crimes that a lesser person will surely be nailed for. This is how human beings are

why do you think that Sreesanth is inferior and he wont be able to perform?

Quote:
Empty Boxes make a lot of noise. So if SreeSanth Backs it up consistent wickets - It would be great


He is the leading Indian wicket taker in the series even though he has missed a few matches...


naaah I like him u misread me there - all I said is he should keep taking wickets and he can sledge as much as he wants else he would sound like an empty box when it falls.

Actually I still remember it was he and utthapa the two players who talked loud when aussies came and they spoke about giving back hard. loved the way sri bowled both hayden and gilchirst. nad uttapa too.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007:10:12:18:05:58 by Hcricket.

H you have changed your tune.. on Sree...

But nevermind...better late than never...

_____

ICL Ko Support Karo Yaro...

BCCI Ko Joote Chappal Maro....

like I said u misread me I never changed any tune - checked my other posts too - in any case sreesanth must focus on wickets not excel in sledging is all I wanted to convey

It is not EITHER/OR scenario in my book...

He can EXCEL at both sledging and wicket taking and if the former helps the later...more power to him...

_____

ICL Ko Support Karo Yaro...

BCCI Ko Joote Chappal Maro....

If its natural style no issues -

Do you think he can continue sledging without taking wickets?

if he needs to sledge to take wickets then I am sure there is a problem in his training methodologies. sometimes sledging could be counterproductive and we have seen that in sreesanth too. he starts spraying. The idea would be to use it strategically.

Quote:

The idea would be to use it strategically.

It's not like Sree is sledging after every ball. He is using it strategically IMO. I guess Indian fans are so unused to seeing an Indian bowler sledge that they think Sreesanth overdoes it, etc.

At the end of the say it is wickets that matter...but if he does want to say a few words to the batsman, especially against a team like Australia (who are no saints themselves), then I see nothing wrong with it.

_______________________

India's Test record against Australia over last 12 years:

Played 26, Won 10, Lost 10, Drawn 6

Right max... he doesn't sledge every ball...but STUPID Indian media is almost apologetic that he even dares to do it once in a while... and makes a mountain out of a molehill...

Of course Aussie commentators like Ian Chappell, etc. add fuel to the fire..

_____

ICL Ko Support Karo Yaro...

BCCI Ko Joote Chappal Maro....

see u misread again. I have no problem if he sledges. But I dont want him to excel that area. I would rather see him become india's leading wicket taker and he can sledge as much as he wants. not the other way around. that is all I wanna say. I like to see him dance the way he did to Nel. That is great. Bowl hayden and gilli and thump on the ground that is excellent. but I dont like him to get angry and sledge when he bowls wide.

how am I related to Indian media I dunno and I am sure u must have played gully cricket. even you must have sledged.

isko lalwa daal. isko maar ke baata gaaandu. we have all done these things. its nothing new.